Bricks in Motion
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Forums - Bricks in Motion » Equipment & Software » Brikifilms - A Brickfilming Wiki, NEEDS YOUR HELP!
Go by total number of views across videos.
But some of the most viewed brickfilms are awful.
EDIT: Also, JustKiddenAnimation's and theNightlyNewsatNine's work is so revolutionary that they both deserves pages of their own, Reguardless of sub count....Just saying.
Last edited by PushOverProductions (January 17, 2014 (10:53am))
jampot wrote:Go by total number of views across videos.
But some of the most viewed brickfilms are awful.
Part of my point. I was being a bit sarcastic but it didn't really come across that way 
I think a brickfilmer's a brickfilmer, no matter how small. I know that when I was starting out, I wouldn't have wanted to be singled out of a community project for that just because I was a newbie, which is why I think there should be pages on any brickfilmer as long as they themselves are prepared to make them (and adhere to the wiki's format) and other people are ready to help out if/when needed.
Brickfilming Elitism is bad, folks. Nobody wants to be at the bottom of the chain, and with a hobby like this there's no reason why anyone needs to be. If we went by sub or view count alone, the whole wiki would be about that YouTube guy who makes Batman videos that everyone seems to hate 'round here (naming no names, since I have no quarrel with 'im).
Also, just my opinion so feel free to ignore it, but here are some pages I think should be on the wiki. I can't do them myself as I have lots of other commitments, but I though there'd be no harm in suggesting them:
Genre pages - as in do a page for each genre, give some examples of brickfilms in those genres. Also add categories for each genre and assign individual brickfilm pages to them.
Brotherhood Workshop
Licensed theme brickfilms - do pages for each individual licensed theme that has lots of brickfilms, too, especially Batman and Star Wars. If you want to give readers a full view of the brickfilming community, then you need to talk about this nigh-obsession with licensed themes.
List of THAC winners (showing first, second and third place for each year) - list pages are always a good idea. Bitesize information is easy for surfers to read.
List of BRAWL winners
Incompetech - Kevin MacLeod's music has been used in enough brickfilms to warrant having a page of his own.
CGI - how brickfilmers combine CGI with stop-motion, the ways they do this, and also the animations that are made completely in CGI.
Then there're the broader ideas:
Individual brickfilm pages. Set out the format, and then everyone makes their own. Trust me, it'll work - I practically ran a BIONICLE fan-fiction wiki for a few years, and people adhered to the code whilst putting out a huge amount of material. It'll work. We'd all be excited to advertise our own brickfilms 
Character pages. Leading on from the last point, if people have important or recurring brickfilm characters then they might feel like making pages for them. Stoic Man, for instance. Ouskavar is another.
Brickfilm location pages. I say this because of all the Tompa Citys, Riggo-Faloos and Brickcinnatis out there.
Thoughts? I think this is a good idea, but it isn't my wiki and I'll leave it entirely up to you guys.
Last edited by jampot (January 17, 2014 (11:38am))
I created a user, I might edit some stuff at some point if I see the need.
The criteria for creating new pages for particular brickfilmers is a tough call.
I agree, 10,000 subscriptions on YouTube isn't a good criteria. I agree with jampot on that.
Many brickfilmers that deserve to have a page have much less than 10,000 subs.
I think placing 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in an official competition is a good one. What about brickfilms that won one of the LEGO Tongal 'contests'?
The "over 100,000 views on YouTube" is a complicated one. I'll use myself as an example, don't take it to be haughty or anything.
So I made a 25 second LEGO Iron Man 3 trailer (more of a teaser trailer, really, because of the length) and it has gotten about 343,000 views. I released it at the perfect time compared to when the movie came out so it got a ton of views and is one of the top 10 results if you search for "LEGO Iron Man 3 trailer". I would certainly not say it's deserving of it's own page on the wiki but technically it meets one of the needed criteria. Watch it for yourself, there's nothing particularly special or amazing about it; it just got a lot of views because of content.
The film that I'm most proud of so far is definitely Perpetual Twilight (again, I'm using myself as an example so I can have more accurate statistics without having to research other people's content, I don't actually mean my film should get a page). If any of my films were deserving of a page it would be this one. It only has 1,100 views, mostly because it's nothing one would search for. People won't just run across it on YouTube because it's not something people are familiar with. Because of this, it won't meet the 100,000 views criteria. It did win Contrast but that was an unofficial contest so it's irrelevant. So basically, the film that is much better than any of my others and that actually has some slightly newer/different/rarely seen techniques wouldn't have a chance of getting a page.
If that's just my videos, imagine how it could be for many other brickfilmers who have truly amazing films but might not really meet the criteria.
Basically I think the criteria for films is not very accurate, but I also don't have any suggestion for making it better.
That was really long and I don't think I said much worthwhile, sorry.
EDIT: Dang, you guys started a whole new page of discussion while I wrote this.
I don't think the criteria should be anything other than "if you're going to make a page for your brickfilm, it must be formatted properly and spellechecked". That way the only limitation imposed on people is their level of commitment, which is the best judge of a brickfilms' worth.
Perpetual Twilight is a brickfilm that absolutely deserves a page. It's rich in narrative, so there's plenty to write about, and is a great example of actual story-telling, rather than a brickfilm which is just a fight between two superheroes. Also, there's a lot that can be said about experimentation with angles and so on.
Unrenewable, the Nightly News at Nine and anything by Squid are my two other top narrative-rich brickfilms. They should have pages - they're inspirational brickfilms and it's important that newcomers to the hobby are aware of them.
I have to agree - going by sub count and video views probably isn't the best way to go. Similar to JonnDthunDer, I made a Batman brickfilm awhile back for a LEGO contest, and it has over 250,000 views now. But it's not really that good, it was pretty slapped-together.
Placing in contests would definitely work as a criteria, but also the original suggestion of having a poll or something similar - where the community (mostly BiM, probably) could input who they think should qualify for the directory - is an idea I think would be a good addition.
Also, I made a "The Community" banner and added a section on the front page, but it's too large and I'm not skilled enough to fix it. 
I can see what's already there and use that as an easy reference, but I don't know what to do beyond that.
Placing in contests would definitely work as a criteria, but also the original suggestion of having a poll or something similar - where the community (mostly BiM, probably) could input who they think should qualify for the directory - is an idea I think would be a good addition.
Ooh no, I meant contest placing for list pages, no for who can be on the wiki. Again, I fear the rows that might come of people feeling left out or that there's some brickfilm-classism going on. I don't know if a poll would work, either.
I you all beat on examples on why the view basis is a bad idea. Over four years ago, before I knew what brickfilm was, a friend and I made a video using LEGO in which we used extremely rudimentary stop motion, taking very short videos, not even still frames, and sometimes literally just moved the minifigs with long plates. It's terrible, an atrocity even, but it has over 760,000 views (it's on my friends channel, and no I will not link to it because I'd be embarrassed if any of you were to see it), while Gaston's Odyssey, by France and Alex, which is one of the most unique and noteworthy brickfilms ever, has an average of of 2,000 views per part. I think it should be that any film can have a page, but I also think there are some films which we should make sure have a page. Also, I'll probably join in the editing once I go back to school and can't work on actually making brickfilms as much. 
Okay, considering the general consensus of the problems with a subscriber and view count based criteria, I have removed them from the page stating them here:
http://brickfilming.wikia.com/wiki/Brik … _Criterion
That's better. Nick Durron only has 8000 subs and deserves a page - now that he has three votes, he's in!
Squid has also made the cut! Personally I think his page should be called Annoying Noise Productions because Squid is his nickname.
The only problem with this system is that it is enevitably biast. I mean take everyone's favourite brickfilmer Mr Forest Whaley. The negative feelings for him round here mean that it'll take a while for him to reach 3 votes despite the fact he is quite frankly the most famous brickfilmer ever!
jampot, I really like all the ideas you have there. The genre pages, licensed, Brotherhood Workshop, THAC winners, etc. I also really like your broader ideas. I was thinking earlier and actually thought having the character/world pages would be really cool if people want to contribute to that. I think that the Brickfilm Cinematic Universe should also have something when it gets going more. Maybe if someone makes a film set in the BFCU the main characters and voice actors, character development and backstory that is completed, the world it's set in, how it may tie into other films, etc. could all be a a sub-page (or whatever you'd call it) of the BFCU page.
I like your idea of letting people make a (properly formatted and easy-to-read) page for their own films. Brickfilmers themselves should have to voted on or have won the contests or whatever other way we'll use to choose them, so the people making each individual film can't necessarily make their own page (unless they were one of the chosen few).
I'd also really like it if the people that do make their own pages for films had to include some sort of a timeline or making of section. Like if they took WIP photos or had concept art or storyboards (maybe even the screenplays...?!), then they could include those in the Making Of section of that film. If there's no physical content like that then they could have to have a short write up on how they went about making it, how long it took, etc.
I'd like to see that just because I'm kind of obsessed with seeing how other filmmakers make films.
Thanks for what you said about Perpetual Twilight, that means a lot!
The only problem with this system is that it is enevitably biast. I mean take everyone's favourite brickfilmer Mr Forest Whaley. The negative feelings for him round here mean that it'll take a while for him to reach 3 votes despite the fact he is quite frankly the most famous brickfilmer ever!
Doesn't mean he deserves a page, though he should be mentioned on the Batman page (when that's made) as he's part of that type of brickfilm's success. In terms of him in himself, I don't think his page is as important as any of the major brickfilmers on this site, and their should be made long before his.
I still kinda' think you should just let people make their own pages, as long as they format them properly, but once again - it's your wiki. Popular brickfilmers may initially be the only ones of general interest, but their pages can link to other brickfilmers and so on, and readers might find themselves learning about some newer, also-good brickfilmers that they hadn't heard of before. To create a fuller picture, you need to be more all-encompassing.
I've had a look at the List of Popular Brickfilmers, and again it's basically just people who are popular on YouTube. You're alienating the community that you've asked to help build the wiki.
jampot, I really like all the ideas you have there. The genre pages, licensed, Brotherhood Workshop, THAC winners, etc. I also really like your broader ideas. I was thinking earlier and actually thought having the character/world pages would be really cool if people want to contribute to that. I think that the Brickfilm Cinematic Universe should also have something when it gets going more. Maybe if someone makes a film set in the BFCU the main characters and voice actors, character development and backstory that is completed, the world it's set in, how it may tie into other films, etc. could all be a a sub-page (or whatever you'd call it) of the BFCU page.
I did have that idea, but I wasn't going to suggest it for fear of being called a 'pluggerer'.
That's what I meant for every brickfilm - a way of showing every and integrating everyone's creativity. It's why I got so excited when I saw this topic, as I thought that the wiki and the ideals behind the BFCU could work perfectly together, a way of bringing everyone's creative juices together, and either blending them or showing them off to the world.
People can post extra character information for their chosen characters. Same with locations. You can broaden your brickfilms' stories, and not just with the BFCU. With EVERYTHING. But at the moment, the wiki's acceptance policy is a bit narrow…
Thanks for what you said about Perpetual Twilight, that means a lot!
Well, it embodies everything I was saying about narrative, and would be great to have character and location pages for 
plus I'm a fan.
I have to admit that before seeing JohnDThunders edit yesterday I personally was not aware of The List of Popular Brickfilmers page existing! 
Looking at its history it appears an anonymous user created it back in May. I agree with you that it doesn't seem to be a very good page idea. Perhaps when the Brickfilmer Directory gets larger Popular Brickfilmers can be a subcategory. If no one objects I say this page just be deleted for now.
Also I was just thinking, maybe the criterion for entry to the directory should be that anybody body can make a page about themselves if they make at least 10 (or some other figure we could decide) edits to the wiki and in addition anyone can make pages about other people that fit the current 1st/2nd/3rd place in an official competition and voting list criterion. I think this would be a way to give an incentive to people to edit parts of the wiki other than the directories at least in the wiki's infancy.
Make it 25 edits, as that'll encourage people to do more good for the wiki at large rather than just their own page.
BTW Boats, I think the link to your signature banner is broken - no image is coming up, just a box and a ? sign.
You guys come up with all sorts of good ideas while I'm not on the forums! Boats, the problem with any sort of criterion is that, in one way or another, it's being decided by people, who have biases - it just can't be helped.
As for personal pages, I like your suggestion of making a number of edits before being allowed to create their own page. But how are we going to prevent new users from making their own page?
There is no way, unfortunately. We just have to put a certain amount of faith that people will be sensible and follow the rules.
I think 25 edits sounds like a better figure Jam Pot!
And Mr Wanderer , I don't think there's any technical way of preventing new users from creating there own pages. We'll just have to make it very clear that if you don't follow the rules your page will be deleted! I could also edit the text that automatically shows by default in new pages to tell people this.
Edit: Looks like Jam Pot beat me to it
The 25 edits thing seems like a good idea.
I was just clicking the "random page" button to see if there was anything I could just correct basic grammar on. I found that page and the main paragraph was barely understandable, I fixed it up though. I didn't really think about how it shouldn't be there, and you're right, I don't think it should be there at all.
Okay, I've added the you can make a page about yourself if make a Wikia account and make 25 edits to the wiki rule to the directory criterion.
By the way I really like pretty much all of the ideas mentioned prior to this post including Jam Pot's extensive list!
I guess the only way to make progress is to start implementing them.
Also shall I make a page on the wiki listing all of the ideas that we want to eventually implement?
Yeah, that'd be a good way of focusing new contributors and showing them what needs to be done on the wiki.
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