Topic: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Dragonframe 4 is out and and it costs the standard price of $295, or now $325 with a Bluetooth controller rather then the corded controller. So if you have been thinking of upgrading from free or cheep software to the industries best and most stable stop motion software but have held out, congrats, costs have not gone up and the latest version should have everything that is currently loved with an even better camera support then before. However, if your like me and have been using Dragonframe 3 for a while the upgrade cost is $95 or $125 with Bluetooth controller.

Now I don't know this for sure but the the Bluetooth controller (which you can purchase as a stand alone) should work with older versions of Dragonframe and could be a huge quality of life upgrade for some people.

Why should you upgrade if you already have v3.x?
I have looked through the update to see what Dragonframe 4 brings to the table and there are two things that stand out to me.

The first is full control of Dragonframe with only the controller. As my sets are on a stand up work place and across the room from my computer (which is not easily movable) and is a sitting work-space, having to deal with a mouse & keyboard in addition to the controller can be annoying, particularly setting up shots in the Cinematography mode. Being able to control the whole program with one controller rather then having to bring in a mouse would be great. But this is also just a quality of life upgrade and might not be worth the $100 price tag. I don't think this really worth the price to me even though I regularly do freelance work using Dragonframe, but it might be worth it to you if you really need full control with one simple keypad.

The next major advantage, and I do mean major, is far greater camera support. You can now you your iPhone and iPad cameras for capture with Dragonframe, which is neat, although not super compelling to me, an Android user. But Dragonframe 4 supports mirrorless cameras! Check it out. It supports 3 Olympus cameras and 2 Fujifilm cameras. The Olympus cameras have micro four-thirds sensors and the Fujifilm's both have APS-C sensors. If you are like me and have an extensive collection of Nikon lenses you can get a micro four-thrid or Fujifilm-X mount to Nikkor mount for about $35. Of these the Fujifilm TX-1 is the cheapest at around $800 for the body only. Shooting mirrorless has advantages for stop motion over using a DSLR as the mirrorless cameras have no moving parts.

Version 4 also supports Sony Alpha cameras! (but some require a HDMI capture card, be sure to check camera support to see if you need one) The Sony A7 camera's are popular among live action film makers and having a go to, 4K live action camera that you can also use for stop motion would be great for folks who want to shoot both live action and stop motion film but don't have the budget for two cameras. It also supports the cheaper A5xxx and A6xxx camera models. A Alpha a5000 is $380 new and with a $175 HDMI capture card that is still less the the cheaper Fujifilm camera and could be a great option for someone planning to upgrade from a web camera and free software to a nice camera and Dragonframe at the same time. However if you want to use Nikon lenses on the Sony camera the lens adapter seems to cost more then the Olympus or Fujifilm adapters.

So if you already have Dragonframe but really want to use it with a mirrorless camera then you should upgrade, however if you already have a compatible DSLR and don't plan on getting a new camera any time soon it's probably not worth the added cost.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Two things to add to this, it also supports the GH4 with a HDMI interface, and a few of the Sony cameras over just USB. (the a7S, a7II, a7SII a7RII, a6300, and a6500 )

This interesting for me because I use Sony stuff, so I may finally join the ranks of Dragonframe users, depending on how much I continue to do stop-motion.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-S9Gk-8REITRVJVQXVwZkdBRk0
“But the enterprise in which I’m about to embark on is fraught with imminent peril.”

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

I didn't realize that some of the Sony cameras worked on USB only! That is even better mini/bigsmile I have updated my original post to reflect that. There is a free trial so you could give Dragonframe a shot if you are interested in checking it out.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

This looks very interesting  :)  ...

Last edited by Alaberria (April 3, 2017 (05:28pm))

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

I'm not sure why anyone would ever want iPhone compatibility for Dragonframe, since in my experience the image quality is pretty mediocre overall compared to what you can achieve with a proper camera.  If you can afford an expensive and highly specific niche program like Dragonframe, then you should definitely be able to afford at least an entry-level DSLR and a few decent lenses.

I have no particular experience with mirrorless cameras (currently have a Canon T5i, if I recall correctly--can't remember the exact series number off the top of my head), but I've had my eye on Dragonframe for quite a while now, especially since I've gotten a good laptop.  It's something I've been wanting to try out for quite some time now but thus far I haven't had the time/opportunity although I'm hoping this summer will change that.  Obviously I have to test out the trial before I decide to buy, but would you recommend getting v.4 over v.3 (or is it indeed even possible to get v.3 for a cheaper price)?

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Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

I don't think it'll be possible to get v3 at a cheaper price. I've next to never seen DragonFrame being sold in places other than on the official website, much less older versions. And often, buying it at other venues is actually more expensive. So since v4 is the one currently available, I'd suggest giving the trial a go and seeing how you like it and deciding if you want it or not. Personally, it's made animation so much more convenient and reliable.

I'll probs stay with v3 for now, since I'm broke lol, but I really like the bluetooth keypad and the ability to control most of the functions with just the keypad seems pretty cool. TBH, even if it's mostly just quality of life updates, since making my animating life easier is kindof a cool deal. Wonder if the bluetooth keypad will work with v3, though?

https://i.imgur.com/gGaR9Oz.png
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Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

I'm really excited about this. In the future, when I actually have a decent amount of disposable income, I'm hoping to move to a Fuji system for photography, and the prospect of not having to have a second camera body just for animation is a most delightful one.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

My Samsung Galaxy S6 has a great quality camera. Too bad it's not supported... hopefully they'll add android in the next update.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Mr Vertigo wrote:

I'm not sure why anyone would ever want iPhone compatibility for Dragonframe, since in my experience the image quality is pretty mediocre overall compared to what you can achieve with a proper camera.

Same reason there's a USB Webcam support. People use it cause not everyone can afford expensive cameras + macro lenses and etc. Now I've never owned an iPhone but I do have a Galaxy S6 and quite frankly the camera is great, all the manual settings ya need and picture quality is amazing.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Hello guys, I am new to this forum.
Let me share what I think.
New version and support for new devices is great, but I feel confused when read your comments that smartphones can make great photos for stop motions. Did you made complete brickfilm using your smartphone? I have just smarptone and I am always suffer from flicker.
I want to buy DSLR, but feel confused when see that there is no way to make it work with dragonframe without cables. New bluetooth keyboard is nice, but I would prefer to have wireless camera connection than that. (Or is it already implemented?)

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Upgrading to a DSLR won't completely help with light flicker. It could be things such as bright clothing or not having everything on manual. If you don't have options to control camera options manually, then upgrade to a DSLR or webcam. I have done all my stop motions on my phone until this year and I never had problems with light flicker.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Simply tweaking a few settings on my C920 and having two lamps, one on each side did the trick for me.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Brick Corner wrote:

... I feel confused when read your comments that smartphones can make great photos for stop motions. Did you made complete brickfilm using your smartphone? I have just smarptone and I am always suffer from flicker.

There are two causes for flicker, external light variations, and camera exposure variations, you can search the forum for more info on external flicker, but for flicker caused by your smartphone you will need an app like Stop Motion studio (iOS or android), or of course this new version of dragonframe (iOS only so far) that will allow you to manually set all exposure settings.

Brick Corner wrote:

I want to buy DSLR, but feel confused when see that there is no way to make it work with dragonframe without cables. New bluetooth keyboard is nice, but I would prefer to have wireless camera connection than that. (Or is it already implemented?)

Pretty much when transferring high quality photos and controlling a camera in real-time, it's much better and easier to use a cable.
A little research shows that even with iOS devices dragonframe4 connects with a USB cable. It get's even harder with DSLRs because a lot of them do not even have any form of wireless connectivity.  There may be ways to connect a camera wirelessly like wireless USB adapters, but I have no personal experience with those.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-S9Gk-8REITRVJVQXVwZkdBRk0
“But the enterprise in which I’m about to embark on is fraught with imminent peril.”

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

My smartphone is LG G4 - it is in manual mode.
I always wear black.
I have 2 desktop lamps with cold white bulbs.

I mean I follow all instructions, but sometimes still get flicker. mini/madhead

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

What's your gain level?

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Brick Corner wrote:

Did you made complete brickfilm using your smartphone?

Yeah. For a while I only shot videos with Samsung S6 without onion skining or the ability to playback the footage. I captured frames with a bluetooth controller.

Here are a few videos I made with my phone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8g9x-K7nGk - Lego Ninjago movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZAgB9wncUc - TMNT Stop Motion video shot with a bluescreen.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Leo's World wrote:
Brick Corner wrote:

Did you made complete brickfilm using your smartphone?

Yeah. For a while I only shot videos with Samsung S6 without onion skining or the ability to playback the footage. I captured frames with a bluetooth controller.

Here are a few videos I made with my phone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8g9x-K7nGk - Lego Ninjago movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZAgB9wncUc - TMNT Stop Motion video shot with a bluescreen.

Looks great, however I must admit that I use more photos per scene. I don't want to say that you are just lucky, I believe it is your skill and experience, I just want to mention that I was not able to track flickering when used just few photos per scene.

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Weasel Animations wrote:

What's your gain level?

Is it the same as ISO?
Here are my camera settings:
ISO: 50
F: 1.8
Shutter speed: 1/15s
White balance 4100K
Focus: Manual Mode

I don't have other settings in manual mode.

My bulbs:

http://i.imgur.com/NDURKQX.jpg

My Lamps are similar to this one:
http://www.lowemfoffice.com/images/big/low_emf_desktop_lamp_2_04.jpg

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

Okay, I did a little research and hears what I found:

ISO:50

F:20

Shutter speed:The longer, the better.

White balance: Stick with one.

This is for a T2i

Hope this helps!

Re: Dragonframe 4 and mirrorless cameras

You said you don't have other settings in manual mode? You need every setting the camera has to be set manually or they could change between pictures.

As far as wireless goes, pretty much any good setup for stop motion with have wires unfortunately. One of the keys is to get your hands off your camera so if you are using a phone and touching the phone every frame there is a high likelihood that you will be bumping your camera. Dragonframe is not running on iPhones or iPads, but is connected to them via USB and controlling the camera remotely. Dragonframe is a really great piece of software but many people don't need all of it's features and many won't be able to justify the cost of entry. If you do wonder about using it and have a supported camera it's a good idea to check out the demo and see how you like using it and if you think it's worth the $300 investment. Right now I have a ton of cables in my setup, from the Dragonframe remote, a USB cable to my Canon SL1, a power cable to the SL1 and another cable to the auxiliary monitor I run Dragonframe on. Then there are all the power cords to my lights. I have shown other photographers my animation setups and they are always surprised at how tethered and tied down everything is, but ideally you want nothing operating on battery and all connections to be rock solid. I have been shooting a lot of my stuff in RAW which means each frame is 20mb which would take forever to wirelessly transfer.