AncientBricks

Topic: Minifig Motion Studies

I'm planning to start doing some minifig motion studies, but I don't want to completely re-invent the wheel if someone else has already done some work in this area.  If you have and you're willing to share your findings, please post them.

I've seen a good bit around about minifig walk cycles, but not much more.  I'm mainly thinking about answering some timing questions like these:

How long does it take for a minifig to
A) point to something straight ahead (lift arm from down to straight out) (both relaxed and hurried)
B) point to the sky (arm down to straight up)
C) how fast can a minifig run (studs traversed / second)
D) turning head 15, 30, 45, 75, 90, 135, 180 degrees (both relaxed movement and hurried)
E) standing up from seated position (both relaxed and hurried)
F) sitting down on the ground
G) sitting down on a raised object
H) Throwing a small object
I) bending over / standing up (like picking something up from the floor)
J) Turning hands
K) nodding & tilting head (for modified minifig)

The list could go on.  Some of these movements are common enough that I really want to settle on a "standard" before I begin animating my next project.  Of course I can slow down or speed up from the standard depending on the context of the shot, but it would help a great deal in laying out exposure sheets before shooting to know how many frames it typically takes to do X or Y.

Please feel free to post any motion studies you've made or any "rules of thumb" regarding timing that you use.  It would probably be most useful to post durations in terms of seconds rather than frames since different people prefer to film at different FPS.  I'm planning on compiling it all on a spreadsheet giving seconds, and number of frames for typical FPS for each motion.  I'll post what I come up with here, in a few weeks I figure.

Last edited by AncientBricks (2008-09-08 03:02:27)

Brickhead

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Sounds good, and I look forward to it.

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AncientBricks

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Here's the first one:

12 frame run cycle at 30fps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_-12_sLEh0

Description: This is the first of my minifig study animation timing project. I filmed this run cycle and then tried playing it back at various frames per second. Anything slower than 30 frames per second makes this cycle look more like a fast walk than a run. At this rate, the minifig traverses 3 studs per step, 6 studs per run cycle, 1/2 stud per frame which comes out to a speed of 15 studs per second (5 steps per second). Next, I'll try an 8 frame run cycle (4 studs per step).

Brickhead

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

That's not bad at all. Although not many people film in 30 fps...

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AncientBricks

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Brickhead wrote:

...not many people film in 30 fps...

That's true.  But one result of this study is that I am going to try a different run cycle that might work at a lower FPS. 

I should've explained how I plan to do these studies.  Instead of filming the animation "to" some specific FPS, I'm going to just film in as small as possible or reasonable movement increments.  Then I'll try playing back the frames at various FPS until I find out what FPS looks "right" or works best.  From that, I'll be able to determine the "speed" of the movement that I'm looking for, and then I can use that speed later to extrapolate it to whatever FPS I decide I want to film a particulat shot at.

Doing a run or walk cycle doesn't fit so well with this plan for my study because you can't really change the "amount" of movement between each frame because it's already determined by what cycle you're using.  All you can do in this case is choose some FPS that works for the run cycle, or find  a different run cycle.  The result of this first run study for me is that I'm going to try a different run cycle, probably 8 frames per cycle that covers 4 studs instead of 3 per step and see if I can then get away with something closer to 15 fps.

DarkBrick

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

The run seemed too fast.... try it at 15FPS

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Leonardo812

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

DarkBrick wrote:

The run seemed too fast.... try it at 15FPS

I'd agree. Just lower the framerate and it should be better.

-Leonardo

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Night Owl

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Same here. By the way, I strongly recommend that you release stuff like this in QuickTime format. You can play it back frame-by-frame, which is essential in analyzing animation.

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Aled Owen

VN

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Yes, plus the 3rd frame when the minifig lowers makes it look bumpy.

"Life is like a box of LEGO, you never know what you're gonna build." - mrgraff

AncientBricks

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

DarkBrick wrote:

The run seemed too fast.... try it at 15FPS

Here's the same test shown at 30, 15 and 10 frames per second for comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AK44p_GT-I

I think the 15 fps looks like a fast walk, not a run.  20 fps (not shown here) is also too slow to look like a run.

VN wrote:

Yes, plus the 3rd frame when the minifig lowers makes it look bumpy.

The question to ask is: Do people's heads go up and down more when they run than when they walk?  I don't know the answer to this question off the top of my head.

A little up and down prevents it from looking like the fig is just gliding across the baseplate as some walk cycles sometimes tend to look.

Last edited by AncientBricks (2008-09-07 04:45:37)

Night Owl

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Heads definitely go up and down when running, but you need to make sure they make a wave motion, as opposed to randomly popping up and down every few frames.

For the 15fps cycle, I think the solution is to take a couple of the transition frames out so that it's faster.

"Some retard who used to be my freind claims he has a gang and he's going to hunt me down and rape me. Except they probably all have plastic BB guns when I have 2 air rifles, an AK47 and a shotgun type rifle for copper BB bullets."
Aled Owen

Steven Studberg

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Night Owl wrote:

Same here. By the way, I strongly recommend that you release stuff like this in QuickTime format. You can play it back frame-by-frame, which is essential in analyzing animation.

Where can you get a good Quicktime compressor?

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Yanzl

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

I tried to make a minifig run, but it looks more like sliding:
MOV

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SmallTimeProductions

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

It looks great if you ask me.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/SillyPenta/Stuff/_thewhacksig.jpg

Night Owl

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Yeah, I think the problem is that you're not really having the minifig truly run; that is, he's not really using his legs to move his body forward. It looks more like somebody doing a moonwalk on an airport conveyor belt (what a funny analogy).

"Some retard who used to be my freind claims he has a gang and he's going to hunt me down and rape me. Except they probably all have plastic BB guns when I have 2 air rifles, an AK47 and a shotgun type rifle for copper BB bullets."
Aled Owen

Steven Studberg

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Steven Studberg wrote:
Night Owl wrote:

Same here. By the way, I strongly recommend that you release stuff like this in QuickTime format. You can play it back frame-by-frame, which is essential in analyzing animation.

Where can you get a good Quicktime compressor?

Oh, never mind. Just bought Quicktime 7 Pro! smile

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VN

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

If you look at my newest film, Moronic I have the character "Ralph" run at 0:58 and I think it looked great.

"Life is like a box of LEGO, you never know what you're gonna build." - mrgraff

T.G-Tom

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

That's a great run cycle VN!

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Darth Bocaj

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

That does look like a great run cycle VN.
AncientBricks: I think that you should lower the framerate to maybe 24 fps. Does it look better that way? I agree with others that 30 fps is just a little too fast.

AncientBricks

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Next "study" - making a minifig nod, as in gesturing "yes" obviously using a customized minifig.  Here's Nod #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEQjTKST_Tg

Here's my description:  After filming this first "nodding" test, I realized that most of my frames were shot with the figure looking too low, so I was only able to use 3 of my 1st 5 frames to get this nod as best I could. Playing back at 20 fps gave the most natural looking nod. I hope to film one more attempt using smaller movements between frames. To get a minifig to be able to tip his head, I filed and sanded down the "neck" on the torso from a tall cylinder to essentially a half-sphere. I used a little sticky tack to help the head stay on. Comments welcomed.

Night Owl

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

That looks slightly awkward to me, almost as if the minifig's head is coming off. I'm not sure if audiences would like it, or if they'd be distracted by it. BertL did a great nod in Da Europeans.

"Some retard who used to be my freind claims he has a gang and he's going to hunt me down and rape me. Except they probably all have plastic BB guns when I have 2 air rifles, an AK47 and a shotgun type rifle for copper BB bullets."
Aled Owen

AncientBricks

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Night Owl wrote:

BertL did a great nod in Da Europeans.

I watched both the original episode and the Unfinished Project version, but didn't notice any nods.  Can you point out which one and what time is the nod?  Thanks.

AncientBricks

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

Night Owl wrote:

Yeah, I think the problem is that you're not really having the minifig truly run; that is, he's not really using his legs to move his body forward. It looks more like somebody doing a moonwalk on an airport conveyor belt (what a funny analogy).

I think the I know why Yanzl's run looks more like a slide.  I tried his exact same run cycle, but as a walk cycle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWrnZSwx9_0).  The frame right after the frame where the legs are stretched across a whole stud's width is the culprit.  I changed that frame in my cycle so that the back leg stays farther back in that frame.  I think that makes it work better as a walk cycle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5OYYfLURwA).

Beyond changing that frame in the cycle, I think Yanzl's run can be improved by having the arms swing higher.  The current arm swing makes it look more like a sped up walk instead of a run.

BertL

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

The nod is somewhere in the first scene in The Unfinished Project. BertL (the minifig in black) does it. I can't recall which line it is exactly and can't be bothered to look it up at this moment (sorry).

The original shot had an unintentional nod. My minifig's head is... really really loose. So I decided to take advantage of it.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BertL/Stuff/stlsig.png

CheeseBrick

Re: Minifig Motion Studies

For the run, if possible, I would make it so that in at least 1 frame in the cycle both legs are off the ground

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