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Forums - Bricks in Motion » General Film Discussion » The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)
Just finished watching An Adventure in Space and Time. It was amazing. The acting was amazing as well the writing. The casting was great.
When William Hartnell said "I don't want to go", It reminded me of the Tenth Doctor's regeneration.
Overall great work.
Watched 'The Last Day'. It was a great concept worthy of a short-video, but the whole thing almost instantly devolved into cliche. I think it would have been better if the short was about a soldier on the front line, but its likely they didn't have the budget to do that (if 'Night of the Doctor' was banged out in a lunch-break, this was knocked out on the car-ride to the set)
Really? The safest place in all Gallifrey, and if just ONE Dalek gets through then everyone is screwed? That's like if a dog got into The White House and there was no-one to stop it from eating the President! Surely there is another line of defense to one of the most important places in Gallifrey? And why do they need a super computer-soldier just for a basic monitoring job? Why do they have your stereotypical 'tough-guy' general on a place where he's not required? Isn't there a war on? Surely it would make more sense if this area was entirely guarded by rookies who, when the Daleks attack, have absolutely no idea what to do?
And how did the main character die? Did the Dalek shoot through the security camera...which somehow shot him? This isn't a Looney Tunes cartoon!
The only part I really liked was when the protagonist looks into the mirror. That was pretty clever. In fact the halucination thing was nice and creepy. But the whole script needed a complete re-working so it wasn't such a stock and ridiculous situation. Again, Moffat has mistaken 'first draft' for 'I've finished it'
Last edited by Max Butcher (November 23, 2013 (05:11am))
Watched 'The Last Day'. It was a great concept worthy of a short-video, but the whole thing almost instantly devolved into cliche. I think it would have been better if the short was about a soldier on the front line, but its likely they didn't have the budget to do that (if 'Night of the Doctor' was banged out in a lunch-break, this was knocked out on the car-ride to the set)
Spoiler (click to read)
Really? The safest place in all Gallifrey, and if just ONE Dalek gets through then everyone is screwed? That's like if a dog got into The White House and there was no-one to stop it from eating the President! Surely there is another line of defense to one of the most important places in Gallifrey? And why do they need a super computer-soldier just for a basic monitoring job? Why do they have your stereotypical 'tough-guy' general on a place where he's not required? Isn't there a war on? Surely it would make more sense if this area was entirely guarded by rookies who, when the Daleks attack, have absolutely no idea what to do?
And how did the main character die? Did the Dalek shoot through the security camera...which somehow shot him? This isn't a Looney Tunes cartoon!
The only part I really liked was when the protagonist looks into the mirror. That was pretty clever. In fact the halucination thing was nice and creepy. But the whole script needed a complete re-working so it wasn't such a stock and ridiculous situation. Again, Moffat has mistaken 'first draft' for 'I've finished it'
The Last Day was alright, it could use alot of work.
When he looked in the mirror I jumped. 
I've don't like Moffat's writing, I only liked him when he wrote a episode from time to time, those episodes were creepy. Once he became head writer, it was just not as good.
So, just watched the 50th Anniversay. The best part: The Sherlock teaser at the end.
I thought the Day of the Doctor was a fantastic episode.
I feel really, really good and delightful right now. Wow
I loved Baker's cameo as well as Capaldi's. Those parts got me really excited.
The only thing I can really point out as a problem is the girl's Baker scarf was off. It feels a little odd have a not entirely accurate scarf.
It was a romp, albeit a fun one.
I'm slightly conflicted over the episode, but that aside, I consider Tom Baker's masterful return to be the absolute highlight. How I wish that Matt Smith could have just jogged on at the end of the scene, leaving Tom to reprise the role! Seeing him was quite saddening in ways.
Last edited by Carousel (November 23, 2013 (03:16pm))
Spoiler (click to read)
I loved Baker's cameo as well as Capaldi's. Those parts got me really excited.
The only thing I can really point out as a problem is the girl's Baker scarf was off. It feels a little odd have a not entirely accurate scarf.
Yeah, those parts were great.
Although, Baker's cameo seemed a bit too knowing. They made it a tad too obvious that Baker played the Doctor. "If I were you, maybe I was you...". Still, it was awesome to see him. And Capaldi's cameo got me really fired up too. (In fact, I actually thought the Curator was him at first as well)
Incidentally, the scarf doesn't necessarily have to be an exact copy; after all, the girl is her own character. I think it was meant to be a reference more than anything else.
Anyway, I really liked it. It was great to see the Time War (though I was somewhat disappointed that the Daleks weren't in it very much at all) and the chemistry between the three Doctors worked really well. And that bit with the statues was wonderfully creepy. The special effects were highly impressive as well.
The Zygon-subplot basically went nowhere though. The Doctors and Clara just randomly left the humans/Zygons in the chamber with a bunch of advanced weaponry and a nuke with five seconds left on the timer and expected everything to run smoothly? Besides which, wouldn't the Zygons be able to tell themselves apart because they are shape-shifters? And anyway, the girl-with-the-scarf managed to tell themselves apart either way...it seemed like the scriptwriters just forgot about this half-way through.
Also, isn't the destruction of Gallifrey a fixed point in time, which means it can't be changed? And wouldn't the three doctors coming together and not destroying (not to mention every single Doctor pulling Gallifrey into a separate time pocket) it create a massive paradox?
Furthermore, how the Doctors got from the Black Archive to the destroying-box place wasn't really explained, and neither was all 13 Doctors suddenly appearing out of nowhere...
I did feel that the un-destruction of Gallifrey lessened the dramatic impact of the Time War--after all, this is the Doctor's darkest secret, and having it suddenly disappear seems really abrupt and makes it insignificant. But this means we'll see Gallifrey and MORE TIME LORDS which makes me super excited.
Nevertheless, while it had some flaws, it was still an epic episode.
The Christmas Special looks to be awesome.
Oh yes, and "Shall we request a more advanced door so we can escape?" is now my new favourite quote.
Last edited by Mr Vertigo (November 23, 2013 (03:20pm))
well that 50th anniversary episode was pretty awesome
FlyingMinifig I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Spoiler (click to read)
Also, isn't the destruction of Gallifrey a fixed point in time, which means it can't be changed? And wouldn't the three doctors coming together and not destroying (not to mention every single Doctor pulling Gallifrey into a separate time pocket) it create a massive paradox?
Furthermore, how the Doctors got from the Black Archive to the destroying-box place wasn't really explained, and neither was all 13 Doctors suddenly appearing out of nowhere...
I did feel that the un-destruction of Gallifrey lessened the dramatic impact of the Time War--after all, this is the Doctor's darkest secret, and having it suddenly disappear seems really abrupt and makes it insignificant. But this means we'll see Gallifrey and MORE TIME LORDS which makes me super excited.
Here it is as I see it.
Bear in mind that Ten and the Other Doctor don't remember any differently, and the rest of the universe won't know the difference either, that the Time War has been so drastically altered. Remember when River killed the Doctor? He was fated to die, and that was a fixed point. However, by affecting events so that everything appeared to be as it should (even though it was a simulacrum of him and not really him that was killed by the astronaut) time continued as it should without any paradoxes. Maybe, because only Eleven - who exists in the Whoniverse's present - can remember how they changed time, and because time appears to have run exactly as it did up to that point to everyone but him, is why there was no paradox.
I hope that makes sense.
I loved this episode so much. It proves that Doctor Who really is a show worth celebrating.
I'll put all this in a spoiler, just in case someone still hasn't seen it.
I thought that was absolutely brilliant. Seeing Tom Baker at the end was a beautiful moment. The episode was filled with great quotes ("We're confusing the polarity!") and had a really satisfying ending, perhaps unlike some more recent episodes. And I get the impression that Moffatt will be tying everything together at Christmas. Return of the Pandorica alliance of evil? Finally finding out who said 'Silence will fall'? I hope so.
Also, the Five(ish) Doctors Reboot is really nice touch.
Last edited by Jayem (November 23, 2013 (04:55pm))
I think it’s best for me to list all the good and bad things about this episode (I should remind you that its all my just opinion, and if you disagree then thats fine and I would actually find it really interesting to know why):
GOOD:
- The humour was surprisingly great. For a while I thought Moffat didn’t have a sense of humour, but then I saw ‘Sherlock’ and realised that Moffat just has days when he doesn’t want to be funny – just like he has days when he doesn’t want to be a good writer.
- Moffat has clearly studied ‘The Two Doctors’, ‘The Three Doctors’ and ‘The Five Doctors’ – as the interactions between each Doctor is brilliant. It was sort of like ‘The Avengers’, only on about one thousanth of the budget
- Oh, I missed you David. You’re from a golden time when Doctor Who made no sense in a silly, overly-camp, farting-aliens way – rather than a plot-holey, first-draft-will-do, needs-a-diagram-to-explain-what’s-going-on way.
- John Hurt can do no wrong. I still can’t believe they actually got him to do this, but he is every bit as incredible as I expected him to be. I demand more of him, even if it doesn’t make sense within the canon.
- I was worried that Matt would be overshadowed. I mean, you have two Shakesperean actors acting their acting-pants off here. But Matt manages to stand out as a unique personality.
- I’m actually really starting to warm to Clara as a character – more so than Amy, possibly because she doesn’t have an infuriating boyfriend.
- The brief 10 sec clip of the 12th Doctor made me produce a strange high-pitched noise.
- I am indifferent to Rose’s inclusion. She’s fairly pointless, and was clearly only shoved in for fan-service – but she’s technically not actually Rose, and she did an OK job. So whatever.
- NO RIVER SONG!! 
BAD:
- You probably knew this complaint was coming, but, like a teacher inevitably having to punish a pupil for writing nothing but “All Work and No Play Makes Jack a Dull Boy” on his essay – I have to complain about the ret-con.
So…it turns out the Time Lords WEREN’T wiped out. Rather than being destroyed in a tragic event that shifted the very nature of the universe and traumatised the Doctor – shaping him into the being we see today, they are stuck in a painting.
Again: that dramatic event that shaped the entire course of the show….NEVER HAPPENED. This is the equivalent of the Eighth Doctor waking up and saying “What a horrible dream!” In fact, I would have rather that.
Moffat: What is it with you and messing overarching stories up? You’re a good writer, as you proved during the first half of this episode. At times you’re a great writer, as you’ve proven with ‘Sherlock’ and your RTD-era episodes. Why do you keep ret-conning stuff?
First you made it so the Dalek’s don’t know who the Doctor is, thus removing their long-running rivalry that has been in place since the second ever episode of Doctor Who and is…sorry, WAS the only reason why the Dalek’s were threatening in the first place. This is a move I will never forgive you for, even if you make Peter Capaldi’s Doctor exactly like Malcolm Tucker.
And now you’ve made it so the Doctor has literally done nothing he’s ever regretted. The conclusion to the Time War is the only real dark edge the Doctor has had. It’s an event that proves he’s an imperfect character – and it is imperfections that make characters actually INTERESTING. John Hurt is so brilliant in this because you can just see in his eyes the weight of this situation. It is tearing him apart. It is making him an actual human character. And I really liked Christopher Eccleston’s Doctor because he also carries this weight. Wiping out the Time Lord’s was the best decision RTD ever made, because it made the Doctor a lone traveller – a world-weary soul who hops around in time and space because it’s the only thing he has to live for.
But no more. Thank you Moffat. The Doctor is now nothing but Superman in space.
In fact, the episodes conclusion was basically like the first Superman movie in how it made absolutely no sense, spawned a billion plot-holes, and made it so there were no consequences at all. No-one has learnt anything. This episode might as well have just not happened for all the good it does for the Doctor’s character-arc.
I would also complain about how it’s not explained where all those Dalek’s went to – but since there are still so bloody many floating about in space, it actually makes sense that they didn’t get wiped out.
- Um…it was undeniably cool seeing stock-footage and badly photoshopped images of all the past Doctors. But…how did the Doctor(s) contact them? Matt Smith couldn’t have just popped up on their monitors and said “Hey! I’m you from a future generation where everything goes all flashy and Hollywood-y and young. Fancy helping me completely break the laws of time and space?”
- Also - Tom Baker? It would have been fine if he was just a quick cameo – but…did they actually acknowledge the fact that he was a Doctor? (“or…maybe I am you..”) Because I don’t think I need to explain why that makes absolutely no sense.
- I hated the girl in the scarf. She was a pathetic fan-surrogate who should have been cut during the first draft.
- A nuke under London? Was this explained in a previous episode? Because…yeah…kinda a big plot-point to drop on us.
Overall, I might actually watch this episode again, but turn it off during the last ten mins and put my hands over my ears. In a few years time, I might mellow-out a bit (like I’ve done for a lot of Series 5 and some of Series 6) but, as I said, I don’t think I can forgive this show for that ending.
Hm, anyone know where I can watch Night of the Doctor/An Adventure in Space and Time? Sounds awesome, but I live in the US and we don't get BBC America.
Last edited by Mighty Wanderer (November 23, 2013 (05:57pm))
Hm, anyone know where I can watch Night of the Doctor/An Adventure in Space and Time? Sounds awesome, but I live in the US and we don't get BBC America.
Night of the Doctor is available on Youtube. I think Adventure in Space and Time will be coming out on DVD later this year so you can see it then.
In case you're also wondering how to see DAY of the Doctor, the special will be broadcast in cinemas in the US this Monday. The event details are here.
As for what I thought on the special, well, to put it lightly, I THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT!
I have too many things to say at the moment, so I'll just say that it was definitely worth the 50 years it took to get here, and the $10 we spent to upgrade our cable to get BBC America so we could watch it.
Last edited by Sonjira (November 24, 2013 (08:54am))
Well, I'm liable to get some flack for this, but oh well.
Personally, I enjoyed Day of the Doctor to a very high degree. It was brilliant to see Ten again, and in my opinion Hurt pulled off his Doctor role spectacularly.
The whole bit with Queen Elizabeth, well, I'm not sure what to say about that. It was a bit odd, really, and despite her degree of implied importance to the plot the episode completely changed gears in a very short amount of time. Although I can understand why the whole Zygon thing was played out, I kind of wish it had been some sort of resolved. It disappointed me a little that the Zygons seemed a tad ridiculous, and I got the impression that they could only be properly appreciated by a Classic Who fan, but oh well. Plenty have seen a lot of Classic Who, I just haven't got around to it. One more small complaint was that there were times when the Doctor seemed a tad childish, beyond his usual juvenile demeanor. The zingers between Ten and Eleven were funny, I won't lie, but it got a bit tiresome when I realised that Ten wouldn't be having any brilliant ideas for the entire episode. However, that can really just be chalked up to my personal love of Ten. Hurt/War Doctor was great. Some parts in particular were pretty emotionally charging, such as Ten's 'I don't want to go', Capaldi/Baker's cameos, and the Fall of Arcadia sequence in general. It made me very glad that even though Eccleston didn't want to return for the episode, they were able to put him in with some archive footage; the same goes for all the Classic Who Doctors.
Overall, I'd say that it was an extremely enjoyable episode and it did the show justice for its 50th Anniversary. Some parts seemed a tad weak, but only so much as any TV show. Moffat was presented with the opportunity to screw this entire kaboodle up colossally and he didn't. I'd actually rank this among my favourite episodes, though I'm sure that will spark some...discussion.
Make of it what you will, I guess. A night well spent for me. 
This was probably one of the best written episodes since the great Russell P Davies left.
Steven Moffat proved for one episode he could actually write.
Bring on the Christmas special and bring on the new Doctor.
That half shot of his forehead was well done I may add.
Farewell Matt Smith, you were never to that great a doctor and as I watched the great David in tonight's episode I realize the boots were just to great for you to fill. But alas you were not all to blame because for the most part the quality of scripts you had to work with were not that great.
Lets hope we give the new doctor better material to work with.
Just finished watching An Adventure in Space and Time. It was amazing. The acting was amazing as well the writing. The casting was great.
Spoiler (click to read)
When William Hartnell said "I don't want to go", It reminded me of the Tenth Doctor's regeneration.
Overall great work.
I just watched it just now and thoroughly enjoyed it.
I really hope that David Bradley comes on to Doctor Who and plays the first Doctor in some sort of new story sometime.
I'd love to see a two Doctor episode with him and Capaldi. I feel like they would be interesting together, seeing as their from two opposite ends of the Doctor's life.
I really don't get why Day of the Doctor is taking so much flack from fans. It was a fantastic episode. Sure, it had some minor issues, but the pros far outweigh the cons.
Oops, I was thinking Day and I typed Night. Thanks for the link, hopefully I can go see it this week.
You probably knew this complaint was coming, but, like a teacher inevitably having to punish a pupil for writing nothing but “All Work and No Play Makes Jack a Dull Boy” on his essay – I have to complain about the ret-con.
Spoiler (click to read)
So…it turns out the Time Lords WEREN’T wiped out. Rather than being destroyed in a tragic event that shifted the very nature of the universe and traumatised the Doctor – shaping him into the being we see today, they are stuck in a painting.
Again: that dramatic event that shaped the entire course of the show….NEVER HAPPENED. This is the equivalent of the Eighth Doctor waking up and saying “What a horrible dream!” In fact, I would have rather that.
Moffat: What is it with you and messing overarching stories up? You’re a good writer, as you proved during the first half of this episode. At times you’re a great writer, as you’ve proven with ‘Sherlock’ and your RTD-era episodes. Why do you keep ret-conning stuff?
First you made it so the Dalek’s don’t know who the Doctor is, thus removing their long-running rivalry that has been in place since the second ever episode of Doctor Who and is…sorry, WAS the only reason why the Dalek’s were threatening in the first place. This is a move I will never forgive you for, even if you make Peter Capaldi’s Doctor exactly like Malcolm Tucker.
And now you’ve made it so the Doctor has literally done nothing he’s ever regretted. The conclusion to the Time War is the only real dark edge the Doctor has had. It’s an event that proves he’s an imperfect character – and it is imperfections that make characters actually INTERESTING. John Hurt is so brilliant in this because you can just see in his eyes the weight of this situation. It is tearing him apart. It is making him an actual human character. And I really liked Christopher Eccleston’s Doctor because he also carries this weight. Wiping out the Time Lord’s was the best decision RTD ever made, because it made the Doctor a lone traveller – a world-weary soul who hops around in time and space because it’s the only thing he has to live for.
But no more. Thank you Moffat. The Doctor is now nothing but Superman in space.
In fact, the episodes conclusion was basically like the first Superman movie in how it made absolutely no sense, spawned a billion plot-holes, and made it so there were no consequences at all. No-one has learnt anything. This episode might as well have just not happened for all the good it does for the Doctor’s character-arc.
I can see what you mean, but I don't think it was ret-conned as such. The ending indicated that both the Time War and Tenth Doctor would forget that this happened, so the full weight of the Time War would still be upon them. It's only Eleven after this point who knows the truth.
I do feel though that this episode lessened the dramatic impact of the Time War, but these complaints are more than made up for by the potential for the future. The Doctor's search for Gallifrey has enough potential meat to last several series--I picture a sort of scavenger hunt in which he tries to piece together clues leading to Gallifrey while doing what he's always done (i.e. save people, fight monsters, etc.). And once he finds it, there are even more possibilities. What of the Gallifreyans reject him? (After all, he did steal the TARDIS and was exiled.) Then he'd have to cope with the rejection of the very people he saved. And the Doctor is anything but Superman in space now--because there are now loads of Time Lords, he isn't the only one and the status quo is completely different. Also, with more Time Lords, he now can have enemies who are just as powerful (if not more) than him. Think about it: The Master, The Rani, or possibly a new Time Lord enemy--or even new allies. And we could see others, who were referenced, such as The Corsair.
I didn't feel the whole 13 Doctors appearing to save Gallifrey was explained very well either, but I think it still was a good way to pay homage to the show. What is more fitting celebration of Doctor Who than the Doctor himself saving his own planet?
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