Topic: A suggested change for the directory

Two things attracted me t BiM a few months ago:

- the neat appearance of the forum (compared to some other ghastly well known brickfilm forums)
- the film directory with ratings

The first is self-explanatory but I'll explain the second point. 

Most fan forums have a place to dump film but BiM has a community rating system which offers real value.  Granted, the "score" is often random and under used but it has value.  I use only two metrics in measuring the "worth" of my flims - youtube stats and BiM scores.  They are used by different audiences and that's important.

Getting to my point, the directory is quickly becoming irrelevant to me and that's a shame.  There are a lot of 10 seconds "This is my minifig waving test" which really don't belong in the directory.  I suggest anything less than 20 seconds is removed by a moderator until code can be put in place to enforce it.

It would be great to show how many "votes" a film has received.  I look for the good films and quite often I'll find a 5 brick film that has only one vote and it turns out to be crap.  The law of averages hasn't been applied and I wish I could see that while browsing.  It might also encourage more votes.

Thirdly, a means to sort the directory by bricks and by date would be neat.  Again - so I can avoid the "walk cycle test" etc.

I appreciate there are limitations in resources, time, money, programmers and forum technical constraints but I thought I'd put that out there.  A lot of people use the directory to show off their creations and that's fine - they can still do that, but that doesn't change the fact the directory is unique in the community and its worth is being diminished.

Cheers n beers.

Aka Fox
Youtube: My channel   Twitter: @animationantics
Best brick films: My selection

Re: A suggested change for the directory

All films for the directory used to have to be approved by the review panel but it's impossible to keep up with then insane quantity of films being made these days, we could make a system that auto hid films under 30 seconds that could be disabled people browsing the directory clicks a unhide ultra shorts or something, things like this are not really supposed to be in the directory regardless of the quality.

I think also embedding the video in the form post itself for the directory would also be a nice update. But I'm not sure how everyone feels about that.

Re: A suggested change for the directory

Brickfilms.com used to categorise by length which might work towards what you are getting at without blanket-banning very short films. I know a directory overhaul is planned for the future so I'm sure there will be plans to make it less of a free-for-all and worth visiting again, but I doubt it will be soon.

Re: A suggested change for the directory

SlothPaladin wrote:

All films for the directory used to have to be approved by the review panel but it's impossible to keep up with then insane quantity of films being made these days...

Noted.  In my OP I suggest that films are added by default and then excluded manually - a reverse of the previous system where films were excluded automatically and added manually.  In other words, the directory can be manually moderated to knock out films under x seconds long and screen tests.  That's an extra workload on mods but more mods can be found.

And since we're asking for features that are probably impossible to implement, a "report this" button would help the community apply some moderation as well.

Aka Fox
Youtube: My channel   Twitter: @animationantics
Best brick films: My selection

Re: A suggested change for the directory

There are 30 second tests and 30 second films though, take the 20 second Easter 2014 entries or eventually those in the BiM Celebration competition I definitely think they should be considered 'actual' films. I don't think an automated system would be good for this.

What I think would be a good idea though is (to combat tog's issue with ratings) for film ratings to not be shown in the main directory page until a film receives at least 5 votes (or some other figure around that). A bit like on the iOS app store.

SlothPaladin wrote:

I think also embedding the video in the form post itself for the directory would also be a nice update. But I'm not sure how everyone feels about that.

I think this would be a great idea to make things neater. I also think if would be good (but guess it wouldn't be easy), if discussion threads were embedded on directory pages. Perhaps as some sort of iframe?

EDIT: A report button on the film page would be good too. (Although you can report posts in a film's discussion thread already)

Last edited by BoatsAreRockable (September 2, 2014 (10:31am))

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Re: A suggested change for the directory

I agree with you (togfox) on the problem, though I think the solution will be need to be more complex than just going off of ratings. Many films receive few ratings. I'm very much hoping to rework the directory so that it's more searchable in the future and more useful in general, and we have some ideas about how to accomplish this, but I am open to more suggestions.

http://i.imgur.com/wcmcdmf.png

Re: A suggested change for the directory

Thats great to hear smeagol.  I shall patiently await the rework.  mini/smile

Aka Fox
Youtube: My channel   Twitter: @animationantics
Best brick films: My selection

Re: A suggested change for the directory

Keep ideas coming. I'm not convinced that the improvements we've come up with so far will go far enough, but we do need a solution that can be automated as opposed to requiring a panel of curators, which would never be able to keep up.

http://i.imgur.com/wcmcdmf.png

Re: A suggested change for the directory

What about a search feature so we can sort through the films using whatever category we want. Could be similar to something like a google search (ok, I'm not sure how experienced the coders are). Also, an advanced search could let us choose settings such as length of the films we want to show up.

http://www.cxpulp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=874&d=1279678499
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Re: A suggested change for the directory

Better search tools are one of the things we're planning on. I think the big hurdle will be making the directory relevant to the rest of the site.

http://i.imgur.com/wcmcdmf.png

Re: A suggested change for the directory

If you can give an idea of the sort of problem you forsee then we can put our thinking caps on and offer useful and useless idea's.  mini/smile

Aka Fox
Youtube: My channel   Twitter: @animationantics
Best brick films: My selection

Re: A suggested change for the directory

There's not a compelling motive to post good reviews, give real but cordial feedback, etc. right now, so the releases forum and the directory have both declined in quality.

One thing we've considered is adding an upvote feature to posts only in the releases forum, with top-voted reviews showing up on the directory pages. There'd be a checkbox when you post in that forum so that only review-style posts are considered for this.

http://i.imgur.com/wcmcdmf.png

Re: A suggested change for the directory

One thing I have noticed, which togfox has already pointed out, is the tests getting into the directory. Sure, it would be great if people just submitted those to the WIPs and Tests forum where they belong, but unfortunately that isn't always going to happen. Is there any way that the directory could automatically sort out certain films based on the title of the film, or related tags? Most people I imagine will at least put "test" in the title or tag of their film if it is indeed a test.

Or perhaps we could set up a system where any film posted in the Releases forum has to be "nominated" a certain number of times before it is eligible for a proper review and inclusion in the directory? EDIT: Didn't see Smeagol's post. I think it's a great idea!

Last edited by Littlebrick (September 3, 2014 (12:33am))

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Re: A suggested change for the directory

What if the film was called something like, "The Big Test" and was actually a film?

Re: A suggested change for the directory

As far as I'm concerned, tests should just be flagged with the "report" button so a mod can delete them from the directory and move the thread to the appropriate forum.

http://i.imgur.com/wcmcdmf.png

Re: A suggested change for the directory

Sméagol wrote:

There's not a compelling motive to post good reviews, give real but cordial feedback, etc. right now, so the releases forum and the directory have both declined in quality.

One thing we've considered is adding an upvote feature to posts only in the releases forum, with top-voted reviews showing up on the directory pages. There'd be a checkbox when you post in that forum so that only review-style posts are considered for this.

Hmm - I see the challenge.  This could be complex if you're not careful.  You have multiple intertwined objectives:

- reward good reviewers
- prevent rubbish from hitting the directory
- prevent rubbish from hitting the release forum (noting this is different to the directory)
- providing a means of empirical peer review

Reward good reviewers
Rewarding ANY reviewer is as simple as providing a post count for the review forum.  Easy.  That is no guarantee of quality.

Rewarding GOOD reviews must come from peers, meaning a LIKE button or forum rep points for the review forum only.

Preventing WIPs/tests from hitting the directory
Two options: community moderated or moderator moderated (pun intended)

I believe we've tried moderator moderated and that didn't work, therefore, community moderated is the next step.  This implies a gate of some sort that each film must hurdle prior to getting on the directory.  Debate begin!  It can be x reviews, x positive reviews, x likes (assuming there will be likes), an average of 2.5/5 bricks with at least 3 votes, at least one vote of 3 bricks or more etc etc.  The gate can be debated till a decision is reached.

Preventing rubbish from hitting the release forum
A simple "report this post" function would suffice.

Providing a means of empirical peer review
Well, we have this already - the brick system.  Ppl give a rating out of 5 against either the review post or the directory film.  Allowing votes on the directory only will mean less films will get votes as less films will actually make it to the directory (assuming they need x number of reviews).

Allowing votes on the forum is probably less draconian and lets films that don't have reviews to still get a score out of 5, which I think is more membership friendly.

Anyway - I've had a slow night but now I'm going to kill some zombies.  mini/smile

Aka Fox
Youtube: My channel   Twitter: @animationantics
Best brick films: My selection

Re: A suggested change for the directory

Oh - and please permit a tag/sorting by competition, meaning "is this an entry into a competition?"  Yes/No.

This is my personal preference only, but I don't pay much attention to competitions and I find that generally speaking, competition flicks are of a lower quality than normal flicks due to compressed timeframes etc (there are exceptions of course).  Also, such a tag might help competition judges - the can filter on the tag and then get an instant list of all entries sorted by entry date (or whatever).  mini/smile

Aka Fox
Youtube: My channel   Twitter: @animationantics
Best brick films: My selection

Re: A suggested change for the directory

I agree with Togfox.   I simple "report this submission" button somewhere at the bottom will help moderators quickly check and delete tests/Wip's.  Such as this one recently added http://www.bricksinmotion.com/films/view/6138/

I will be willing to offer some of my time to moderate some of these reported videos.  We need to keep the directory clean. mini/sunnies